This Episode Features:
(06:32) Pharmacist Aki Shaw provides comprehensive guidance on travel vaccinations for Vancouver Island residents heading abroad. Shaw emphasizes that food and waterborne vaccines like Hepatitis A and Typhoid are non-negotiable for international travelers, recommending travelers start vaccination protocols at least six weeks before departure. He also addresses Covid and Flu shots and the measles resurgence, clarifying that anyone born after 1970 needs vaccination or boosters.
(18:37) Author Shanon Sinn discusses his extensively researched book “The Haunting of Vancouver Island” exploring Vancouver Island’s paranormal landscape. Sinn shares the compelling story of an Indigenous woman seen walking on water in Port Alberni’s Somass River, asking witnesses “Have you seen my baby?” He reveals disturbing patterns in Sasquatch sightings, particularly their concentration at former residential school sites including Meares Island.
Episode Highlights & Key Quotes
“I mostly recommend the food and waterborne as non-negotiables because you can’t possibly control that. You would have food and water and you don’t know the exact source, even though it’s a good restaurant or a hotel.” – Aki Shaw, Pharmacist
“The thing that these two islands have in common that really made me stop and wonder was that they’re both residential school sites. They’re both places of a lot of trauma. When this being is said to be a spirit being…there has been a lot of people that have commented how often this being has been seen in cemeteries.” – Shanon Sinn
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Transcription:
Ian Lindsay & Associates: Ian Lindsay of Lindsay and Associates has played an active role in the local community since 1979. He has been with RE/MAX Vancouver Island’s most advanced real estate business network since 1996, marketing and selling residential, rural, strata, recreational, investment, and project development real estate. You’ll find true real estate professionals at ianlindsay.ca.
Rockin’ Rhonda & The Uptown Blues Band: Here comes Peter. Here comes Dave. Oh listen, bringing stories, making waves. No missing, spinning tales in the podcast cave. So much laughs and insights everywhere. Peter and Dave, they’re on the mics. Alright, join the ride. It’s gonna feel just right.
Dave Graham: Welcome back to the Pulse Community Podcast. This is the place to hear about the people and stories centred on mid-Vancouver Island as we head deeper into fall. I’m Dave Graham.
Peter McCully: And I’m Peter McCully. The snow is back on Mount Arrowsmith. The corn fields are now empty, and the pumpkin patches are busy.
Dave Graham: Now I’m back to my annual debate as to when to turn the heat on. Oh, it’s that special time of the year when I’m wearing a sweater in the morning, I’m in shorts by noon, and then I spend the afternoon wondering if I’m coming down with something or if it’s just—
Peter McCully: October. I see. It’s another confusing time in the Graham household.
Seasonal dilemmas aside, this week we have a couple of fascinating conversations coming your way, including a return visit with author Shanon Sinn as he tells us more about the wild people and the Sasquatch of Vancouver Island.
Shanon Sinn: The original story of the Wild Man in the Woods in the Qualicum area was that it was a person that had run away, like a kid that had got lost in the woods and grew up in the woods and became this wild person. There was another theory that it was a missing gold miner that had lost his rationale and became a wild person. And while this was all going on, people claim to speak to him.
Dave Graham: Pharmacist Aki Shaw will be telling us about various travel vaccinations for those travelling abroad, as well as updating us on measles, flu, and COVID vaccines.
Aki Shaw: I mostly recommend the food and waterborne as non-negotiables because you can’t possibly control that. You would have food and water and you don’t know the exact source, even though it’s a good restaurant or a hotel or something. So food and waterborne are the most common ones. And then after that, there are arrays of different vaccines depending on your travel situation.
Peter McCully: The Pulse community is expanding. First up, we have a football podcast with Aaron and chef Jonathan Frazier from the Courtenay-Comox region. They talk NFL, CFL, including the Seahawks and Fantasy Football.
Dave Graham: Oh, and here’s the thing. Jonathan is a chef, so I figure there’s likely to be a recipe or two involved, right? I’m thinking pre-game appetizers, oh, snacks during the game, then you have halftime and post-game menu planning. Lots of opportunities to serve up something special. Hey, if there is a better way to do chicken wings, I’m interested.
Peter McCully: Dave, didn’t you just tell us recently on one of the podcasts that you were on a new diet and exercise programme?
Dave Graham: Well, yes, Peter, I did. I’ve taken action. I now park way further from the donut shop than I used to. Don’t look at me like that. It’s baby steps, my friend, baby steps.
Peter McCully: And last week we debuted Gunsmoke as the first programme in our radio archaeology series at thepulsecommunity.ca. This week you can enjoy an episode of Dragnet starring Sergeant Joe Friday.
Dave Graham: Just the facts, ma’am. I’ll love it. Classic radio drama. Joe Friday was played by Jack Webb, and here’s evidence of what a good job he did with that character. When Jack Webb passed away in 1982, he was buried with full police honours. It’s a very rare thing for a civilian, but that spoke of Jack Webb’s legacy. Hear for yourself—tune into Dragnet. The episodes were created from actual case files of the Los Angeles Police Department.
PQ Foundation: Hi, Peter and Dave, and hello to everyone tuning in to the Pulse. I’m Charlene Smith, the executive director of the Parksville Qualicum Community Foundation, and I’m here with a reminder that the fall 2025 neighbourhood small grants are now open from September 15th until October 31st.
These grants are for everyday residents of the Parksville, Qualicum Beach, and surrounding Oceanside communities. Anyone who’s looking to make their neighbourhoods stronger—you don’t need to be part of a non-profit or have any special experience. All you need is an idea to help people connect. Some examples of past projects include things like community meals, block parties, emergency preparedness, art workshops, cultural celebrations, neighbourhood gardens, and skill-sharing events.
If it brings people together, helps neighbours get to know each other, and builds belonging, then it’s a great fit for neighbourhood small grants. You can apply now for up to $500 for your project, and the process is simple. Just head to parksvillequalicumfoundation.com, click on neighbourhood small grants, and create an account to fill out a short online form.
And don’t forget that we’re here to help along the way. Please reach out if you have any trouble. Applications close on October 31st, so now is the time to share your idea. We can’t wait to see the creative community-building projects that our Oceanside community members come forward with this fall.
Thanks again to The Pulse for helping us spread the word.
Thrifty Foods: At Thrifty Foods, we love to help non-profits, charities, and schools. Our Thrifty Foods Smile Card bulk programme allows organizations to immediately save up to 6% on the purchase of Smile Cards in bulk, allowing you to keep more money in your organizations pockets. Ask for details at Thrifty Foods in Parksville.
Dave Graham: Our thanks to Thrifty Foods for their support of the Pulse Community Podcast. Hey, we have some sponsorship opportunities still available for those who wish to reach the mid-Vancouver Island area specifically.
Peter McCully: Head to our website, click on the “Contact Us” tab, and leave us a written or spoken message at thepulsecommunity.ca. We invite everyone to feel free to reach out, whether it’s about sponsorships or to add a comment about our content or to share information.
Dave Graham: I booked my appointment for this week to get my flu and COVID-19 vaccinations. I just have to remember to pack my own treat for afterwards if I can get through the process without too many tears after my shots. Last year I asked for a lollipop. All I got was funny looks. Okay, let’s get the latest on vaccines from a local expert. Here’s Marilyn.
Marilyn: Pharmacist Aki Shaw is in the green room. He’ll be telling us about various travel vaccinations for those travelling out of the country, as well as updating us on measles, flu, and COVID vaccines.
Peter McCully: Welcome to the podcast today, Aki.
Aki Shaw: Thank you for having me.
Peter McCully: The measles has been in the news quite a bit the last few months. I thought measles was one of those things like polio and mumps and chickenpox that had gone away because of childhood vaccination programs over the years.
Aki Shaw: Yes, it was like that for a very long time, though it has started to creep up again, and that makes us realize the importance of ongoing vaccinations. Some diseases, they do have prevalence. If we let down our guard, they start to come back into society. And not all vaccines are bad in the sense—say, for example, a lot of people fear about autism and instances of autism before measles vaccine and after measles vaccine. Because we have a lot of data, because it’s so long in the retrospect, it hasn’t changed. So of course that’s not a correlation. If it was, we would’ve seen a huge jump in all sorts of other things that weren’t happening. And not all vaccines are made out of intent of selling and making money and stuff. So measles is a philanthropic vaccine. Actually, a lot of them in the past were, so I think people should for sure keep doing those. It’s safe for their children and safe for the community.
Peter McCully: What’s your experience been with people the last six months or so looking for information on measles vaccines?
Aki Shaw: Because there was a lot of confusion in terms of guidelines, because there are multiple bodies. There is the public health side, like the BCCDC, and then there is the colleges side, like College of Pharmacists and then BC Pharmacists. So I directly had to fetch the proper guidelines from the horse’s mouth, and they said anyone born in 1970 or later who haven’t been immunized, they should get a booster dose or a series like dose one, and then one month later, second dose. Those who were born before 1970, they should have natural immunity, and they left a gray area for me to decide, like for people between 1960 and ’70, if they don’t remember. Then they can still have a booster. That’s what I’ve been telling to my patients. You don’t need—if you are born before ’60 for sure, and in between ’60 and ’70, I leave it as recommended one booster dose, and then after ’70, if you have had it, that’s great. If you didn’t have, then you need to complete the series of one dose and then a month later, another dose.
Peter McCully: So measles is not just a childhood illness.
Aki Shaw: No, it starts as soon as we are born. That’s why we see even children have measles, and of course their immunity is still maturing, so the incidences are more. That being said, as we grow, we develop resistance to the disease, and that’s why the incidences also fall. But that being said, it could happen to anyone. It’s how strong is your immunity versus how strong is the attack from the infection.
Peter McCully: Perhaps we could talk for a moment about COVID and flu shots. Just the season, right?
Aki Shaw: Flu shots—they have been really good like since last two, three years. Good in the sense there are hundreds or thousands of strains of which they determine four, which are going to be moving around. It’s a probability model, and in the last three or four years, they have been nailing it down. It’s been really good and consistent. That means whatever change they did back in 2016, it’s finally showing results. That model is working. Flu shots, I recommend for sure, even though you’re not travelling or anything, because it saves you time, saves you not feeling terrible for a few days. And then especially for those with respiratory issues, flu shot, very important.
COVID shot is also good. Initially the virus was much more violent, but it would spread slower than the current generation of variants, and that’s usually the pattern in epidemiology. Any new virus, it’ll have great viral load, but then the mutated strains, they would move around a lot quicker, but they lose their potency to some extent. Say the hospitalization rate and the complication rate starts to fall, but number of cases start to increase. That’s what we are noticing with COVID as well. I’m not saying not to have COVID shot or anything like that, but initially COVID was much more horrible than it is right now. But still, if you’re getting the vaccine, might as well get the COVID shot. It doesn’t hurt. So if someone were to have had COVID at the start of COVID, whereas someone were to have COVID now, the amount of complications initially from the initial strains were much more dangerous compared to having it now.
Peter McCully: This is the time of year when a lot of folks around here are looking to maybe travel somewhere warmer for a few months or even longer during the winter. What’s the difference between routine vaccinations and travel-specific vaccinations, and why do travellers even need to think about both of them?
Aki Shaw: Travel vaccinations are important because some things that we don’t have here are quite prevalent in other places. Just like any flora and fauna, same thing goes for viruses and bacteria—different climates, different geographies, different vaccine standards, different phases of eradications. For example, as a travel clinic, we get this a lot like what people should have and what not. I mostly recommend the food and waterborne as non-negotiables because you can’t possibly control that. You would have food and water and you don’t know the exact source, even though it’s a good restaurant or a hotel or something. So food and waterborne are the most common ones. And then after that, there are arrays of different vaccines depending on your travel situation.
Peter McCully: How far in advance should someone start planning for travel vaccinations before their actual trip, and why is timing so important?
Aki Shaw: I would say the bare minimum one and a half months. First is the hepatitis. So Hepatitis A is like food and waterborne. That one you need two vaccines. So there is accelerated and non-accelerated schedule. One is the non-accelerated, which is day zero, and then a month later, two vaccines, and then that protects you for six months, but it takes two weeks to kick in. So you take one day zero, then a month later, and then two weeks later, so one and a half months, and then you’re travelling, and then six months later if you take the third dose, it’s good for 20 years.
Now, if you’re in a catch and it’s one month, then you still have accelerated schedule, which is zero, seven, and 21. You take three doses and then you take the fourth dose in the first year, 12 months from day zero. And then that again completes the schedule and protects you for 20 years. I recommend people getting the hepatitis for sure. It’s a good investment. It’s good for a long time. Wherever you go, then you don’t have to worry.
Then there is the other one called Typhoid. That one is just one dose typhoid, and you can have it at least two weeks before you go, and ideally a month before. Then there is Dukoral. Now Dukoral is heavily marketed for traveller’s diarrhea. Now that traveller’s diarrhea is unpleasant, but to me the more important part for Dukoral is the cholera and dysentery, because those are life-threatening. Those are also waterborne ones. Dukoral, it’s three weeks before—day zero, you take one dose, a week after you take second dose, so it’s like a powder vaccine. You dissolve it in water and drink it, and then two weeks later it kicks in. So three weeks before you have to start like zero, seven, and then two weeks after it kicks in.
Peter McCully: Aki, are there certain vaccinations that are required for entry into particular countries or regions?
Aki Shaw: Yes. So yellow fever is the most common one. As a designated yellow fever site, we have to do that quite often. Some countries require that on entry, and there are various regulations. Say, for example, someone travelling to South Africa directly from Canada, then they don’t need a yellow fever. But let’s say, for example, from South Africa, if they go to somewhere else, say Zimbabwe, and then they come back again to South Africa, and if it’s more than 12 hours of stay, then on entry they would ask for the yellow fever vaccine card. So it’s just like a vaccine. You go to any designated yellow fever site and then you get the vaccine. They give you a certificate with the lot and expiry and everything, and then it’s valid internationally.
Peter McCully: And what are the most commonly recommended travel vaccines and what do they protect you against?
Aki Shaw: Some vaccines are costly, and that’s the main reason why some people avoid them, and fair enough. But if you are going to have a swim in a water body, especially still water bodies like lakes, meningitis is recommended then, or Menactra. Then if you’re doing the same but in Cambodia or Vietnam or something, then Japanese encephalitis and meningitis. If you’re going on a wild safari and you feel like there could be chances of you getting bitten, then the rabies vaccine. Now all of these vaccines are anywhere from $100 to $200, so I would say while planning your trip, also include these expenses in your budget.
Peter McCully: How do you assess what vaccinations a specific traveller might need? What are some of those factors that you would think about—medical history and destination and whatnot?
Aki Shaw: It’s public information. You can get it from CDC websites and stuff, and then the key is filtering out—recommend every single thing, but you don’t need everything. Say, for example, some vaccines are not travel vaccines, but I still recommend, for example, tetanus. It can happen anytime. It’s good for 10 years, but if you’re in doubt, as long as it’s one year apart from the last dose, it’s fine to boost with it.
Second, I recommend Shingrix. Now, Shingrix again is not a travel vaccine, but shingles happens whenever you are in a state of stress, and that tends to happen when your schedule changes, your sleep changes. A lot of people end up having shingles when they’re travelling. It’s not a pleasant experience, so someone above the age of 50 and with chronic illnesses like diabetes and blood pressure, I recommend them have shingles as well. Tetanus, another one if they’re in doubt they haven’t had in the last 10 years. And then the other important factor is their cardiovascular health and their respiratory health. In that case, I would recommend them RSV also, the standard COVID and flu shots.
Peter McCully: Are there any typical side effects that people might experience from some of these travel vaccines you’ve been talking about?
Aki Shaw: There are. In terms of the vaccine sites, most of the side effects that I’ve seen are swelling or redness at the site of injection, especially with powder vaccines like yellow fever, because they’re powder and they mix it with saline right before we inject. Larger the particulate size, because they’re not as fine as pre-formed ones—because it’s a foreign substance, your body and your immune system is reacting to it. You might feel a little bit down or tired, mild fever or chills because it’s mimicking that mild episode of that infection. Those are the common things I observe. It’s very variable. Some people get it, some people don’t feel anything, though.
One that I’ve seen most side effects with is the Malarone or the malaria one. Those ones have mood-related side effects. So someone going through menopause, I’ve seen that it affects their mood a lot more, and you don’t want that during a travel trip. Mefloquine is another one. It protects against malaria, but nowadays mosquitoes carry a lot more than just malaria. They carry dengue, chikungunya, and so much more, so you would still be heavily reliant on DEET and mosquito sprays. And I would say Malarone has more reactions. The other ones are not that bad.
Peter McCully: Are there any common misconceptions about travel vaccines that you frequently encounter as people come to find out more about them?
Aki Shaw: I know one patient—he said we have a God-given travel vaccine, which is our natural immunity, which is good. Last time when I went to India, after six years of my stay in Canada, I had a stomach upset. Now I thought being from India, I would never have something like that. I grew up there. But the thing is, if you don’t use it, you lose it. And same goes with the immune system. They are not fighting and fending off these antigens on a day-to-day basis. When you get another exposure after a long time, or it’s your first exposure, it’s even worse.
In the Mayan civilization, they were never exposed to smallpox, and then all of a sudden, six months later, 50% of it was wiped off. It’s like that—the first exposure is way more deadlier than mild doses of exposure, which in a way is a concept of vaccine, right? So it’s not like your natural immune system is up for it. It’s like you are trying to face an enemy without knowing anything about it.
Peter McCully: Aki, I want to thank you for your time today.
Aki Shaw: Thank you so much for having me.
Dave Graham: Our thanks to pharmacist Aki Shaw for adding his expertise to the Pulse. BC’s pharmacists are now able to prescribe for contraception and many minor ailments. For more information, head to the website seeyourpharmacist.ca.
Peter McCully: This is the Pulse Community Podcast, available on Amazon, iHeart, Apple, Spotify, TikTok, and YouTube. Plus, you’ll find us on Instagram and Facebook. Sign up for our newsletter, and you’ll be among the first to know when the incomparable Roy Henry Vickers will be on the programme.
Dave Graham: Oh, I was on his website the other day. You could pick up a limited edition print and expect to pay at least a couple of hundred bucks. For an original artwork, we’re talking thousands—more like tens of thousands of dollars. But for about 20 bucks, you get 42 of his works in colouring book format, suitable for colourists of all ages.
Peter McCully: Roy Henry Vickers coming soon to the Pulse podcast. Then we have Paul Nicklen scheduled to appear, and he has a new book coming out as well.
Dave Graham: And I was visiting his website the other day. His photographs are phenomenal—wolves, polar bears, spirit bears, whales, seals, sea lions, elephants. This man, well, he’s also a filmmaker and a marine biologist, and he is dedicated to creating images that move people into taking action towards conservation.
Peter McCully: Paul Nicklen of Nanoose Bay, co-founder of SeaLegacy.org, will be here to chat about his photography, the state of the environment, and a new book he will be publishing that you can be a part of.
Dave Graham: Actor, writer, soon-to-be producer Chelah Horsdal joins us to talk about her various TV and movie roles, including that of the Federation President in Star Trek: Discovery.
Coombs Candy Walk: Sandra here from the Arrowsmith Community Recreation Association, ACRA for short. The 56th annual Coombs Candy Walk will take place at the Coombs Fairgrounds on Friday, October 31st, from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. This year’s theme is Midnight at the Library. Come trick-or-treat through child-friendly storybook-themed rooms, try out the old-fashioned cakewalk, admire the pumpkins, take your picture in the photo booth, grab a snack at the concession, and stay for the fireworks at 8:00 p.m.
There will also be a haunted barn for those looking for something a little spookier. Admission is by donation. This event is only made possible through the incredible effort of community volunteers with support from ACRA, Arrowsmith Agricultural Association, the RDN, and other local businesses. For more information or to sign up to volunteer, check out arrowsmithrecreation.ca. I hope to see you at the annual Coombs Candy Walk on October 31st.
Ian Lindsay & Associates: Ian Lindsay of Lindsay and Associates has played an active role in the local community since 1979. He has been with RE/MAX Vancouver Island’s most advanced real estate business network since 1996, marketing and selling residential, rural, strata, recreational, investment, and project development real estate. Ian has received several awards recognizing his exceptional community commitment locally, as well as awards for outstanding performance and achievement from both RE/MAX International and the Vancouver Island Real Estate Board. You’ll find true real estate professionals at ianlindsay.ca.
Windsor Plywood French Creek: Windsor Plywood in French Creek specializes in hard-to-source interior and exterior home-finishing products, including flooring, doors, and mouldings. Windsor Plywood, French Creek carries high-quality, responsibly sourced products and are committed to providing outstanding value and personalized one-on-one service to all of our customers—homeowners, do-it-yourselfers, renovators, builders, designers, craftsmen, and contractors. Regardless of the type or size of your project, Windsor can help you bring your vision to life from start to finish. Let Windsor Plywood in French Creek help you with your renovation, new build, or building project. Call 250-752-3122.
Peter McCully: We here at the Pulse Community Podcast proudly proclaim that we are all about the people and stories of mid-Vancouver Island, and we’re delighted to include stories for the youngsters amongst us. They are called Skookum Kid Stories, and you can hear all about Captain Dave’s adventures aboard the Mellow Submarine.
Dave Graham: We also have stories about Gracie and Peter. Gracie is a dog; Peter isn’t. And they get out to all kinds of familiar places and events. All of our kid stories have underlying themes that emphasize values, supporting family and friends, and caring for others and the environment.
Peter McCully: You’ll find those stories at thepulsecommunity.ca, skookumkids.com, Apple, Amazon, iHeart, Spotify, and YouTube.
Dave Graham: We have added a new dimension to our storytelling. We now have colouring pages to go along with each new episode, so now you can download these PDF files and colour along with the story. Our next guest is a storyteller, while the stories come out after a great deal of research. Here’s Marilyn.
Marilyn: Shanon Sinn is the author of The Haunting of Vancouver Island, an editor and publisher of Black Cat, A Collection of Eerie Tales set in BC’s Pacific Northwest. Shannon received his comics and graphic novel certificate in Victoria and has a writing degree from Vancouver Island University, where he was awarded the Barry Bradford Award for journalism. He was the host of Folklore Thursday and Weird Wednesday on Twitter.
Peter McCully: Thanks for joining us on the podcast once again, Shanon.
Shannon Sinn: Thank you for having me, Peter.
Peter McCully: Your book, which I’ve been reading, The Haunting of Vancouver Island, and which we talked about on a past podcast episode, the final chapter examines the ghost story as a phenomenon and points out ghosts’ presence in all human cultures. Why do you think supernatural stories are universal to all human experience?
Shanon Sinn: There seems to be a common belief in a spirit realm, a place where spirits go after we pass. So in some cultures it’s like a heaven or some sort of paradise or hell-type scenario. In other cultures, it’s like a parallel dimension. Generally speaking, whether it’s a parallel dimension or somebody is not granted access to one of these other places and are trapped here, there seems to be this belief that for one reason or another, spirits can be here and interact with the living in some way. I don’t really know why this is so universal other than, in my opinion, that there seems to be something to it. People are actually having these experiences. The most logical explanation to people is that they are the deceased that they are interacting with.
Peter McCully: The book includes numerous illustrations. There’s photographs, maps, and newspaper clippings as well.
Shanon Sinn: Yeah, I wanted there to be images to accompany the stories, and it was actually the publisher’s idea, the designer, to add the maps at the beginning of each chapter, which I think was a great idea because a lot of people might not know where some of these locations are.
Peter McCully: And it lends an authenticity, almost like a fact-checking to the stories, in effect as well.
Shanon Sinn: Yeah. I really like images when it comes to non-fiction and history because it gives a, like you said, an extra layer to it, to really interact with the story and imagine what is going on or where it took place.
Peter McCully: The book, Shannon, takes readers on a paranormal journey from pretty well the southern tip of Vancouver Island right up to the north. Did you notice different types of supernatural stories in different regions of Vancouver Island?
Shanon Sinn: So the Victoria area had been written about most of the stories covered in news or TV shows. They’re more evolved, and they tended to be more, I guess, rooted in history but elaborated or exaggerated in the details. Most stories north of that hadn’t been written about before. They tended to be more raw. When I interviewed people, it felt more authentic and less exaggerated, at least in a mass commercial type of way. All types of folklore or urban legends take a life of their own. But when you get commercialism involved in some of the stories, it’s handled—it’s not organically being changed over time. It’s less authentic, I guess you could say.
So I would say when we get to the northern parts of the island, there’s more and more Indigenous types of stories involved as well. So you have different types of spirit entities that visit abandoned villages or live in the woods, in the water, or near beaches. They often influence, I think, the stories that exist in those communities.
Peter McCully: Shannon, what story from the book most changed your own understanding of Vancouver Island’s supernatural landscape?
Shanon Sinn: I was really blown away by the story of the woman who walks on water in the Somass River by Port Alberni. She’s been seen in the Paper Mill Dam Park. There’s a number of reasons for this. Usually when there’s stories in communities about an Indigenous ghost, the ghost is often wearing regalia, like very ancient. And this woman that was seen walking on the water, Indigenous woman, was just described as wearing old-fashioned dress. So right away, that was very interesting to me.
The story had survived for a couple of generations. The primary witness that shared it with me was a younger Indigenous woman who had first heard about it—her grandmother had heard about it. The thing that really got me—the story is cool because she speaks. A lot of ghosts don’t. She would be seen walking on the water, and she would come up to people and ask them, “Have you seen my baby?”
I researched that as hard as I could. I found that a couple of Indigenous women had worked at the paper mill that used to be there. The craziest thing was that there used to be a platform over the water exactly where people said that they saw this woman walking on water. So where you see these people walking on shoals or whatever, they say that it’s like a residual haunting, like a spirit that just doesn’t seem necessarily aware but keeps going over what happened in the past.
It just made me think, why is this woman walking where there used to be a platform? It made me think that there was more something to this than other stories. And then, like I said, the fact that she speaks, I think is interesting. And then of course, that she’s an Indigenous woman but not wearing old-fashioned or traditional regalia. So it feels like this is something that people have actually experienced.
Peter McCully: After years of research into this book and now more books as you’ve moved along, Shannon, and Vancouver Island supernatural folklore being the topic, how has your own relationship with the unexplained evolved?
Shanon Sinn: I would say that I’m less sceptical personally, though I still think that people that say that they have the answers, I don’t believe that they do. I also approach the subject more as folklore now, because I’m interested in the stories and I’m less interested in perceiving it as the quote-unquote paranormal. That whole subject gets a little bit religious or less interesting to me because people have ideas of what they are and how to exorcise or how to find information from them, talk to them, and that isn’t as interesting to me as the actual stories.
Peter McCully: We had Chris Burger on the podcast who told us his story of seeing a Sasquatch in Dashwood just outside of Qualicum Beach. One chapter in the book is dedicated to the wild people of the woods. Correct?
Shanon Sinn: I found that there’s Sasquatch-type stories throughout Vancouver Island and also the Indigenous stories that many people feel are similar. I would say even a lot of communities use the same imagery as the contemporary Sasquatch-type encounters or stories, although these beings are quite different in Indigenous lore compared to when people say that they experience these unidentified hairy giants in the woods.
Peter McCully: Are there particular areas, Shanon, of Vancouver Island where Sasquatch encounters are more commonly reported or stories handed down, and what do you think might make those locations significant for that?
Shanon Sinn: In British Columbia, the earliest settler stories that started to appear in the newspapers started to show up in 1904 and 1905, and they were mostly mid-Vancouver Island. There was all these stories about a wild man in the woods. The original story of the Wild Man in the Woods in the Qualicum area was that it was a person that had run away, like a kid that had got lost in the woods and grew up in the woods and became this wild person. There was another theory that it was a missing gold miner that had lost his rationale and became a wild person. And while this was all going on, people claimed to speak to him. He was living in a hut.
And some of the stories that almost sound Sasquatch-like, but it’s clear that it wasn’t because he didn’t have hair on his body and he spoke. A man named Michael King came forward from the Campbell River area and said that he also saw a wild person in the woods, and he described this encounter he had with this six-foot-tall humanoid that had hair covering his entire body. When he went back to where he had this encounter, he had startled this being digging roots. He went back and he found large naked human footprints in the mud.
So this is clearly, if you want to say a Sasquatch-type story, this would be the earliest one that’s similar to what we have today. One thing that’s interesting is that when he asked the Indigenous people of the area about this creature, their story was that an orangutan had escaped from a Spanish vessel that was visiting. A side note is that there’s a lot of Indigenous oral stories about the Spanish. That aside, this orangutan escaped, or this ape escaped from the Spanish vessel, abducted a 15-year-old girl, and had babies with her. This was supposed to be one of the children.
Whether or not that story was made up by Michael King or whether or not there’s merit to it, the story that it had footprints and that it was covered in hair makes this, to me, the earliest Sasquatch-type story. Then in the 1920s, there is a schoolteacher who’s also a federal agent that worked with Indigenous communities in the Harrison Lake area named J.W. Burns, who published a whole bunch of stories in the Vancouver papers as well as in Maclean’s Magazine. And he’s generally the person that is credited with the term Sasquatch. It’s a twisting of the Salish term for the similar being.
And when he first started writing about this being, it was a trickster-type being. It spoke English, it shook its fist at people that it was mad at, it was friends with a fairy that lived in a tree. It was quite different compared to the modern stories that have emerged. Even today, though, people will still use the term Sasquatch. If you talk to any Indigenous people from Harrison Lake area or even on Vancouver Island, they will tell you that this is a spirit being, that it can shapeshift, and in some cases it’s gendered, like D’Sonoqua up North Island in the Kwakwaka’wakw territory. It’s a woman. They call her cannibal woman because she can sometimes abduct children, put them in her basket, and eat them.
But it’s not the same undiscovered creature that the settler population generally talks about, although they’ll always bring up that Indigenous people have stories about this creature. But they never bring up that point that to them it’s a spirit being, and it’s not really like an animal.
Peter McCully: Shanon, when you were going through these stories, did you notice any patterns in people who report the Sasquatch encounters or common characteristics in their backgrounds, or any seasonal patterns in times of the year when encounters are probably more commonly reported?
Shanon Sinn: I thought it was really interesting that the two places nowadays that are considered in recent times to have had the most reports would be Alert Bay—so that’s on Cormorant Island—and Meares Island near Tofino. Alert Bay is really interesting because it doesn’t really have any forest, doesn’t have any deer. It’s mostly homes. The sightings were usually in the cemetery, and there’s audio recordings that made it onto the news. And Meares Island is obviously much more heavily forested and such.
But the thing that these two islands have in common that really made me stop and wonder was that they’re both residential school sites. They’re both places of a lot of trauma. When this being is said to be a spirit being, I mentioned in the book as well, in The Haunting of Vancouver Island, that there has been a lot of people that have commented how often this being has been seen in cemeteries. So that’s really strange to me. Makes it more rooted in something more supernatural than being an undiscovered being that would just swim to an island to make appearances in this community.
I would say generally people that report this being, whether it’s Indigenous people or settler white people, other communities, they’re almost always very outdoorsy people, often credible in my opinion in how they explain it. They will be commercial fishers their whole life and then see something on the shore, or like Luke Swan from Ahousaht—he was a fisheries officer and he saw it one day on the shore and then he saw it again two years later or something.
But traditionally, when Indigenous people see it, they’re not supposed to, in most of the cultures I’ve been told, speak about it right away because it’s considered a gift. It’s like a blessing, and the being is sacred and can give them good luck, they might say, or it’s good to see it, but not good necessarily to share that you saw it. But I would say the one thing most of these people have in common is that they’re very outdoorsy. It’s pretty rare to hear a story about someone from the city who was out having a hike and just happened to come across it.
Peter McCully: Did you run across any historical accounts of Sasquatch or Bigfoot encounters on Vancouver Island in newspapers or journals or any official published records?
Shanon Sinn: There’s tons from 1904 to 1905, but they mostly just started as a wild person that wasn’t Sasquatch-like. The sightings would be sporadic over the years until J.W. Burns, who really started sharing all these stories. And then after this time, if we could go to British Columbia wider than just Vancouver Island, there was an elder, August Jack, who shared with an anthropologist, Wilson Duff, I think his name was. He was told from his grandmother and other people in the Harrison Lake area and Fraser River area these older stories often included some form of human abduction. They would usually take a woman and make her their wife and have kids with her. If the woman escaped, she would come back and she’d be covered in hair and speak the Sasquatch language and not speak the language. That would come back over time, and she’d lose her hair.
There’s also a very violent story where there are people out—I believe they were berry-picking. They might’ve been digging roots. They were attacked, and the adults were killed quite viciously, and the children were left intact, and one of the children ran to get help. And when the people came, they found a scene of these murders, and they tracked the being and lost the tracks somewhere between Harrison Lake and the Fraser River.
So it’s quite interesting how it interacts, but in their culture, it’s very clear that it is more a spiritual being, that it’s travelling back and forth between a spirit realm. It’s not just an undiscovered type of primate.
Peter McCully: Shanon, thanks for joining us today and sharing The Haunting of Vancouver Island.
Shanon Sinn: Thank you for having me.
Dave Graham: Our thanks to Shanon Sinn for sharing those remarkable stories. Whether you’re a sceptic or a believer, the consistency of these accounts across the decades is certainly intriguing, maybe enough to get some of us to look at our forests a little differently.
Peter McCully: The lack of conclusive physical evidence remains an issue, but it’s good to have some mysteries left out there, Dave.
Dave Graham: Yes, I agree. If we were ever able to answer all the questions and solve all the mysteries, well, this world would become a less interesting place, I think. Not like that’s ever gonna happen. Besides, that’s all far beyond my little everyday life concerns, such as when to turn the heat on or, oh, I don’t know, whether or not they have marshmallows in my hot chocolate. No, sorry. That’s not an accurate scenario. The answer to marshmallows is always yes.
Peter McCully: Marshmallows?
Dave Graham: Yes. Sorry, was that a test, or are we going somewhere for hot chocolate?
Peter McCully: You want hot chocolate?
Dave Graham: Well, you said marshmallows, so we’re kind of committed now.
Peter McCully: I—what? Oh, never mind. Let’s just go.
Rockin’ Rhonda & The Uptown Blues Band: Here comes Peter, here comes Dave, oh listen. Bringing stories, making waves. No missing. Spinning tales in the podcast cave. So to speak. Laughs and insights everywhere. What a treat. Peter and Dave. They’re on the mics alright. Join the ride. It’s gonna feel just right.
